Crowdfunding for feature requests

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Very frequently when I submit a feature request, the hestia team says:

It is an interesting feature and we would like to have it but:

  • It is a lot of work
  • Our programmers can’t afford to develop this feature for free
  • The development team doesn’t use email so we don’t want to put a lot of effort in something that will only give us more headaches.

Please submit a pull request yourself or hire a programmer.

Since it is in our best interest to have a robust panel with important features I am suggesting to crowdfund certain features that the development team wants to have incorporated into the main branch so HestiaCP keeps evolving in the right direction.

I am willing to develop a crowdfunding site for free and donate it to the Hestia project if the team and the comunity find it interesting.

What do you guys think?

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there is no team, figuratively speaking - 2.5 people.
first you need to create this command.
it is a great responsibility for the team, and as a second job, it will put the team in a frames.
Vesta code - will the license be violated?

but the idea is good. but I think the team will disagree.

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Interresting, that you know that much about us, but I’ve to correct you: Official team contains 8 members, 3 members have full repository and system access, so that the “vesta-situation” can’t happen again :slight_smile:.

That should not be a problem, basicly it hasnt directly something to do with vesta, just a option to finance new features.

To the idea itself: Making a crowdfunding page sounds like a possibility, the fact is that there also needs to be a dev which has time to develop it. For myself, I currently have not enough time to currently develop code for hestia, due to some big private projects - also @eris has a job beside it and is doing the most coding in his private time. The other members code when they have free time, but currently quiet all of us are busy.

Also said: Hestia started from a few old vesta forum members and/or devs, because we really liked vesta but not the way it handled security issues and also the communication itself. If you run your own servers, such a behaviour can be risky. That’s why hestia got born a few years ago, as a replacement system for our own vesta servers. Basicly all we do here, with sharing the code to public, running a own apt server and providing support channels over forum and discord, is only because we love to and not really for earn money out of it. It’s like we go the way, we think it’s the best - which is always a team decision, that’s also why we decline feature requests or we arent interrested to invest our limited time in it. Also said, Hestia is open source, if you don’t like it - fork it and make it better, that’s the way open source works.

tl;tr: If you would like to build an crowdfunding page for hestia, please go on. Just keep in mind, that there would also need to have or find a dev, which has time to develop that specific paid feature. The good thing could also be, that it hasnt to be someone from the current devs.

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Dear @chupa, why you have deleted the SquareFlat CSS from your repository?
The look & fill look very good.

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@mmgnservices Please keep discussions separate.

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Thank you guys for having taken your time to share your opinion.

That’s exactly the point.

If 20 people pay 40€ to develop a feature (800€), we could then hire a professional and pay him 600€ and have 200€ left for debugging and maintenance.

We would have 20 happy hestia users plus some more who didn’t pay. The panel gets better and will with time attract more people to the community to help.

The thing is that I don’t want to fork the project I want the project to grow so that eventually you have more resources and time to keep mantaining and developping Hestia and don’t get burnt out.

I completely understand that. I don’t want to make money out of it and that’s why I think that I should donate the crowdfunding platform to the hestia team in case I decide to go forward with it.

I would rather spend my time with my son BUT I think that it could be worth the effort if:

  1. the community would also be willing to share the expenses of developing certain features.
  2. the development team also would support, acomodate and help the programmers asigned to the development of the features so that they would meet the quality standards.

So what I am really asking to the community is:

  • Would you be willing to share the costs of the development of new features?
  • Is there currently something in the github features list that you would be willing to pay 20€ to have it developed?
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For the full list

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What License? VestaCP is published under GNU GPL3.0

Screenshot 2021-06-24 at 11.50.40
Screenshot 2021-06-24 at 11.50.402530×394 79.3 KB

As long I don’t sue VestaCP because of no updates / bad update or claim warranty the GPL 3 license is extremely open… And a lot of things are allowed.

As long we disclose all our changes and state a changelog… If we want, we can put HestiaCP behind a paywall…

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I have been in a similar place in the past, my take on been paid for a feature.

Hestiacp is free to the community and is built around an idea that the Devs have for it.
Once they start been paid for a feature or otherwise then there been paid to produce this feature or other, then they are in a sticky situation where they will prioritize this feature over others and not only that the clients (of the dev) have more responsibility not only to there time but also to the client to provide the feature.

Once money is passed to create a feature your then in a contract provide this feature, even though your not in a written contract the client does have rights under EU and international law.

I was in a situation years ago like this and I got burnt, badly

Justy tuppence

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That’s stressful if there is not a clear policy.

The thing is that if some of us are willing to pay to get something and the users are not willing to pay even for the bug fixes.

Who deserves the attention? People who value the programmers time or the people who don’t?

But this discussion is pointless because in one day this proposal has only 5 likes and “likes” are free. Who of those who liked the post would pay for a feature in the end should be even less.

So I think that I am not going to develop a crowdsourcing feature for hestia because the interest of the community is low.

If this changes over time, I might reconsider my decision.

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you dont have to pay to show you value the programmers time :stuck_out_tongue:
Yeah it was a stressful time and it almost bankrupt my business at the time but I had to close it about 10 years ago because I seriously hurt my back and have never been the same since…

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It’s not at the same level for sure.

Saying thank you is free. And flattering the team as I do is also free.

It’s sad to read that.

The thing is that I would like premium quality features that may not ever be developed by volunteers and maybe I can’t afford them alone.

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Hestiacp is free to the community and is built around an idea that the Devs have for it.

Yes you are right how ever users have sometimes good ideas and we are not always up to date with everything. ZSTD was also suggested by an user via forum and implemented with in a week…

Once they start been paid for a feature or otherwise then there been paid to produce this feature or other, then they are in a sticky situation where they will prioritize this feature over others and not only that the clients (of the dev) have more responsibility not only to there time but also to the client to provide the feature.

What is the difference between Client X ask me to build a wordpress plugin for website Y or Client Y asks feature Y for HestiaCP. I think we should still follow our base principles/guidelines. If we have the posibilities to make it work I would not think long time about it…

You don’t have to pay to show you value the programmers time :stuck_out_tongue:

True there are other options:

  • Translate it your native language.
  • (Alpha / Beta) testing
  • Searching for Bugs / Security vulnerability in HestiaCP. And report them (Please check if the have been patched in the latest version at Github!)
  • UI design / UI Improvements
  • Provide support to the community via Forum / Discord
  • Help with the documentation
  • And many more …

It’s not at the same level for sure.
Saying thank you is free. And flattering the team as I do is also free.

I think the biggest “contribution” to support anybody is spending valuable time for any open source project you like…

The biggest issue with in the current community is that because “Hestia” is “free” we should get all the support be 24/7 and login into their system and help them with everything…

Even we “Publish” HestiaCP for free it doesn’t mean that we are obligated to solve your problems and debug anything for “Free” even when it is an bug in Hestia. And even when we give users an answer there is not even an thank you from it.

Even small “changes” takes a lot of time… As it also require to be tested properly as it may cause issues under different situations. Depending on the “issue” it can mean multiple server installs.

For example: Make /etc/phpmyadmin/ not accessable for users by jaapmarcus · Pull Request #1945 · hestiacp/hestiacp · GitHub

We got a message via DM:
Step 1. We need to verify the issue
Step 2. Try out an solution
Step 3. Fix the solution in a test branch
Step 4. Make 3 different test installs (1. for Nginx, Nginx + Apache2 + PHP-FPM, Nginx + Apache2 + modphp ). All need to be verified as it works because what if it doesn’t…
Step 5. Discover that the idea didn’t work for Nginx + Apache2 + modphp and find a solution for it + test again
Step 6. Test upgrade script from 1.x.x to 1.x.x+1~alpha
Step 7. Make a quick test install on Ubuntu to verify your didn’t mess up…

And so easy a day is lost…

I really don’t care if you are not able to “Donate” anything. Because you only host a few non profit websites. But there also a lot of companies making a “profit” by selling web hosting on HestiaCP and provide nothing to the community… Of course you are allowed to do it. But consider making a donation to the project as you also depend on it. If something happens like what happened to VestaCP your are on your own again. And migrating all the servers to an other panel does cost al lot of time…

If only 50% off the user base would pay 1 euro / month / server we would be able to “hire” a developer full time (“EU Wage”) + “all the running costs”.

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Maybe you should consider to put hestia’s updates behind a paywall. Charge 1€ per month…

If someone wants to update their servers via apt they have to pay. Otherwise they can fetch the code on github.

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We have considered it. How ever there are other disadvantages.

What if a security issue raises we are not able to update those “free” servers. Probably more support questions on how to install Hestia and so on…

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Well security is a concern for the user, he may contribute to the project for prompt updates.

You may also have 2 apt repositories. One of them delayed for 2 weeks.

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Hi guys!

I think that crowfunding by features may work but not sure if it’s the best idea. I will just suggest to enable the the GitHub Sponsors program for Hestia.

It will allow inconditional “donations” without forcing to deliver any special feature or do anything extra of what the team already do. With the time, you may decide to pay yourself for the hours you spend adding or fixing things, invest it in an external developer for developing some feature, or who knows… maybe it grows enough to quit your job and become full-time hestia developers… it will be just funding from people happy with the project that just want to support it, again, inconditionally.

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Crowdfunding is only for the short term,
Agree with @eris, I think it would be great to use an idea like this 1 euro/month/server for long term development. Of course there are features that are different from the paid ones.
such a system is already implemented in CWP and there is an extra fee for private support.
I’m sure HestiaCP will grow faster with that move.

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that’s the thing… why the hell everybody wants HestiaCP to grow? :wink:

I would like for it to stay as it is - secured and up to date. isn’t that enough? it’s a lot of work to stay on top of new versions for everything. I do not want another overloaded cpanel, plesk, direct admin etc.

people are already demanding stuff from our devs every other day. it does not work that way and any kind of payment involved will make thing worse - simply because then there is even a reason to feel entitled and demanding.

don’t get me wrong. if someone else decides to run a crowdfunding or whatever to develop a new feature, fork hestia and integrate it - awesome. that’s what github is for. pull request or even back porting things. look at myvesta - there can be multiple similar panels and they can benefit from each development.

for now instead we (as in HestiaCP) need to stop adding features. suggestions will always be welcome, as @eris pointed out, some times users find things we are not aware or don’t think about.

but still, don’t hold your breath about that feature you need. :man_shrugging:

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I think for new features we should prevent HestiaCP become CPanel 2.0 or Plesk 10.0 or DA x.x.

I am fine with the lacking control panel that doesn’t think for the user. But speed up just the maintenance tasks like creating mail domains / mail accounts and set up and setup web domains.

I can totally live with the fact that Cpanel is better / more features and a crazy licensing free for this reason. I don’t need this crap (except IPv6 support and maybe so other small things) and “we” don’t have to time, other priorities to fund every “ideal” control panel.

We should focus on the features that is useful for multiple users and prevent double systems …

For Web I think we are almost done I can’t think about 90% maybe 95% of the core features are there only a few small things are left:

  • Proxy to hestia via port 443 / 80 instead of 8083 or your random one
  • Ipv6 support

Working on a lot of features at the same time killed use during 1.3 to 1.4 phase and that level I don’t want to enter it again…

Some new features might need some changes to existing “systems” and those moments are ideal to do a lot of smaller changes in one go… Also there is a lot of small “stupid” things to be done to keep Hestia up to date with current changes like PHP 8.0 and so on …

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